By: Aaron Lerner Date: 29 December, 1997

IMRA interviewed Gaza Hamas leader Abdel Aziz Rantisi, in English,
on 28 December, 1997.HAMAS LEADER RANTISI - PEACE ONLY WHEN ISRAEL CEASES TO EXIST

By: Aaron Lerner Date: 29 December, 1997

IMRA interviewed Gaza Hamas leader Abdel Aziz Rantisi, in English,
on 28 December, 1997. The entire interview follows:

IMRA: You were quoted In al-Quds on the 27th saying that the
struggle with Israel is, among other things, a cultural struggle,
and it won't end until this element of the struggle no longer
exists. Is this a change in position? Before you were talking
about hudna [a temporary cease fire agreement].

Rantisi: I said before and I am saying now that we are not
struggling against Jews as Jews. We are struggling against
occupiers. We are defending our people. And until the occupation
of our land ends we will continue our struggle. We are just
defending our people, our land and we do not do anything against
Jews. We lived with Jews and we shared before with them as
neighbors and citizens in one state and up until now you can see
the Jews and the Christians in Syria and Yemen. So we can live
peacefully with each other but we are against occupation.

IMRA: When you say occupation of land you mean all of Palestine?

Rantisi: Where are you from originally?

IMRA: From the U.S.

Rantisi: I hope that some time in the future the Jews will
establish another state in the Unites States of America and they
will call upon you to coexist with them and accept their occupation
of your land. I don't know what you would call the struggle there
- terrorism or something else.

IMRA: So you are saying in any part of Palestine.

Rantisi: Everybody in the world knows that the Jews came in 1948
and they occupied our land, uprooted our people from our land and
so we consider all of Palestine now under occupation.

We gave our proposal to stop the bloodshed in our area for a while.
A temporary truce so that we can live in peace in this area. Stop
the bloodshed and leave it up to the coming generations to solve
this problem.

IMRA: Do you find that Hamas supporters are discriminated against
in the Palestinian army? That they are not allowed to hold senior
positions. Does affiliation with Hamas hurt people's chances to
advance in the army or police?

Rantisi: Not at all. Anyone who joins the army or police will not
be a member of Hamas anymore.

IMRA: They have to leave Hamas to join the police?

Rantisi: Yes. Because Hamas forbids their supporters and members
to be in the police.

IMRA: One would think that the security forces are, from a
political standpoint, one of the major centers of power in the PA.
What's the logic behind denying yourselves, from a political
standpoint, leadership within one of the centers of political power
in the PA?

Rantisi: Hamas would encourage its supporters and members to join
and to be in any army the aim of which is the continuation of the
struggle against the occupation. Hamas will not share in any force
whose aim is to prevent the struggle.

IMRA: And that's how you view the PA's security forces today?

Rantisi: The Palestinian security forces have clearly declared
that they will stop any kind of operation against the occupation.
How can the members of Hamas share in these forces?

IMRA: So there aren't any religious people in the police - just
secular?

Rantisi: I am not speaking about the degree of religious belief of
anyone. You may see religious people who are in the secret police
but they are not members or supporters of Hamas. Not everyone who
is religious is a Hamas supporter.

IMRA: There are others who are religious but do not support Hamas?

Rantisi: Yes. The majority of Palestinians are religious but not
all of them are members or supporters of Hamas.

IMRA: So there are other religious figures, for example in Gaza,
with a following?

Rantisi: We do not say and we will not say in the future that the
only ones who will go to Paradise are the members of Hamas. No.
Or that the religious have to be members of Hamas. Nor will we say
that in the future.

IMRA: So there are other religious leaders with the same status as
Sheik Yassin?

Rantisi: They are religious and we respect them. We can't say
that they should be members or supporters of Hamas.

IMRA: Are their political views different from those of Hamas in
terms of their views of the Arab Israeli conflict or are you
talking about other matters?

Rantisi: The Arab-Israeli conflict is just because the Israelis
came from overseas and took our land and dismissed our people and
so we are suffering now because they uprooted us from our land.

IMRA: Would you say that the other religious officials share Sheik
Yassin's view of the Arab-Israeli conflict?

Rantisi: There is a difference between us and other parties that
we consider the liberation of our land - the liberation of our
occupied land - as a part of our religion. We can['t give up even
one centimeter of our land to occupiers. Not just in Palestine but
everywhere. Take for example in the United States, you would not
give New York to the Cubans.

IMRA: Actually, there are negotiations going on between the USA
and Canada over resolving border disputes and there may be some
land transferred. Now are you saying that this view about land is
particular to Hamas or is this view that there can be no compromise
on land is shared by all the religious authorities.

Rantisi: All the religious - not just in Palestine but in the
entire Islamic world - believe that they should not give up their
land to anyone because the Koran ordered us to liberate our land
and to defend it from the occupiers.

IMRA: That applies also to parts of Spain as well.

Rantisi: I am speaking now of Palestine [laughs].

IMRA: Historically there were parts of Spain which were under
Moslem control.

Rantisi: I am speaking now about Palestine. I am not talking
about France.

IMRA: But these areas were also, by the same token, under Islamic
control.

Rantisi: It's up to our religious leaders who can give a fatwa on
this. But I am a politician and I am only speaking about our land
in Palestine.

Dr. Aaron Lerner, Director
IMRA (Independent Media Review & Analysis)
(mail POB 982 Kfar Sava)
Tel 972-9-7604719/Fax 972-9-7411645
INTERNET ADDRESS: imra@netvision.net.il
pager 03-6750750 subscriber 4811